So, who has decided to kill Sir Ewen...

Plans, operations, and intentions

Moderator: Imarë

Who Is Your Favorite Option?

Earl of Vemion
0
No votes
Earl of Osel
0
No votes
Earl of Neph
2
40%
Earl of Balim
0
No votes
King
0
No votes
Archbishop
0
No votes
Dowager Countess of Osel
0
No votes
Relative of Fatal Bout at Tournament
0
No votes
One of the Other Suitors
1
20%
Damn, Sir Ewen should take the "How to Win Friends" Class
2
40%
 
Total votes : 5

Postby Lord Ewen » Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:24 pm

A useful reminder, given Melderyn's proximity to Kaldor and longevity, compared to the upstart Tharda. Of course, Ewen has never claimed Melderyn awareness of his existence, as he himself doesn't know. Rahel's injunction to not let Lady Brisyn Rissai read him might have more to do with the security of Thardan plots, given Morgan's tampering with Ewen around the parentage issue. Anyway, King Darebor is Ewen's uncle, whether he knows it or not.

Caldeth at least feigns disdain for Tharda, as seen in his snub of Bevan when he said of Coranan, "that's some sort of capital, isn't it?". Or words to that effect. Not sure whether that bodes ill for his feelings about Sir Ewen as a son-in-law.

The Arren connection certainly played poorly with Thilisa, in spite of Rahel's concurrence that revealing it might be the best way to go. She referred to it as a "taint" and called Ewen all sorts of names at first. But the sense wasn't that the political connection repelled her, but the personal implications of what it meant about Ewen. Or at least that was my sense in rereading the session notes. The Deryni angle seemed to be where her misgivings still lie, as well as the loss of the initial impression of Ewen as (to use Stimos' term) clay.

So, one question is, how to take the edge off that? And how hard to push the Tharda and/or Melderyn connection with Caldeth?
User avatar
Lord Ewen
Baron
Baron
 
Posts: 1055
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:27 pm
Location: Greensboro, NC

Postby Lord Ewen » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:26 pm

And we don't have too many clues to go on in trying to plumb Caldeth. He called Theron Palliser a "charlatan" when speaking to Bevan, which mirrors Thilisa's use of "wizard" with Ewen. Not clear if the old man even buys the magic thing, analogous perhaps to being a Luddite. Anyhow, he may be inveterately opposed to contaminating the family with charlatans, or something.

Or he might have pragmatic concerns about how the king would view his family marrying Thardan or Melderyni nobility, or not wish that for some other reason. I may be in error thinking of Ewen's royal connections as a positive in Ewen's column, if the old man sees this as a negative.

Also, as Matt points out, we need to consider how to play things if Thilisa and Caldeth are opposed. Does Ewen try to win over Caldeth by advocating for himself, even if that seems a long shot, or exacerbate the split to prevent Thilisa from caving and going with one of Caldeth's choices? Should Thilisa's mother ever be mentioned (a real wild card, if you are going for the latter course)?

These are just a few of the questions that we should knock around before sending that letter to Sir Rollard. If we don't do it here, I would like to do it after the notes are read Saturday.
User avatar
Lord Ewen
Baron
Baron
 
Posts: 1055
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:27 pm
Location: Greensboro, NC

Postby Matt » Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:27 pm

Sir Ewen wrote:Of course, Ewen has never claimed Melderyn awareness of his existence, as he himself doesn't know.

Quite true and yet ...

Sir Ewen wrote:Anyway, King Darebor is Ewen's uncle, whether he knows it or not.

Indeed, and with a network all his own. He might just be aware. Certainly, it should be expected he's aware of Rahel.

Sir Ewen wrote:Caldeth at least feigns disdain for Tharda, as seen in his snub of Bevan when he said of Coranan, "that's some sort of capital, isn't it?".

Sir Ewen wrote:She referred to it as a "taint" and called Ewen all sorts of names at first. But the sense wasn't that the political connection repelled her, but the personal implications of what it meant about Ewen.

Sir Ewen wrote:The Deryni angle seemed to be where her misgivings still lie

Sir Ewen wrote:He called Theron Palliser a "charlatan" when speaking to Bevan, which mirrors Thilisa's use of "wizard" with Ewen.

All these indicate a pattern: magic is scary. You've already seen in Kaldor magic is quite rare - almost non-existent. See how easily Lady Cheselyne was able to make social hay from the elf angle. (And given that she knew all the time - what does that say about her?) This is a society where magic is unknown even at the highest levels. A place where they can say wizard and it's a bad thing. No one - not even Astarock (though he clearly trod on the line) flaunts magic here.

Theron is clearly not a charlatan. Arren of Melderyn was called "Archfiend" in Kaldor - interesting given he never touched the place so far as you know. Neph and Harabor both had derogatory things to say about Deryni. And Thilisa was caught off guard to say the least. Rahel, it must be said, is as new to Kaldor as you are, and may have misread that aspect of its society.

Sir Ewen wrote:he might have pragmatic concerns about how the king would view his family marrying Thardan or Melderyni nobility, or not wish that for some other reason. I may be in error thinking of Ewen's royal connections as a positive in Ewen's column, if the old man sees this as a negative.

The bloodline may be the positive, but the implications of it could be negative. Ewen represents a decidedly mixed bag.
User avatar
Matt
The GM
 
Posts: 2556
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:38 pm
Location: Weymouth, MA

Postby Lord Ewen » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:47 am

Certainly I would imagine an Earl would be expected to consult his monarch before betrothing his heir to a foreign nobleman. Ewen's status is more ambiguous than that, however, given the lack of any public acknowlegement of Ewen's parentage in Tharda, Kaldor or elsewhere. And Ewen is now an honorary citizen by virtue of being FKK, and a feudal subject of the king by virtue of his manorial holdings. Nevertheless, Caldeth would have to contend with Ewen's bloodline becoming public at some point (after all, what good would it be otherwise?) and the king subsequently taking offense. Getting permission from the king on the front end, however, runs smack dab into the king's history of being one of Thilisa's "undeserving swains".

I'm not sure how to finesse this conundrum for Caldeth, unless he harbors ambition for his line which goes beyond pleasing the present incumbent at Caer Elendsa. If he can be tempted to give his line an international (to use an anachronistic term) affinity, and is willing and able to weather the short-term storm, he might take the bait. If not, Ewen is faced with convincing Thilisa of asserting her will, in the interest of her future progeny. If an alliance with Kaldoric nobility is good for the earldom, a blood connection to the Parkhursts promises grander possibilities.

Or, it may risk gaining the enmity of the other noble houses of Kaldor? That, I would think, is another possible factor as well...
User avatar
Lord Ewen
Baron
Baron
 
Posts: 1055
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:27 pm
Location: Greensboro, NC

Postby Imarë » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:49 pm

After reading the latest exchanges, I say again "imare will participate in the archery contest". I am going to leave it there. A case may be made for any number of contradictory theories. I am not sure that anything can be done pro or con on any of them and it hurts my head currently just to contemplate the whole thing.
"Hello Sir Baris. Come and play with us. Come and play with us, Sir Baris. Forever... and ever... and ever."
User avatar
Imarë
In the Blessed Realm
 
Posts: 1347
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 8:02 am
Location: Easton, MA

Postby Matt » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:12 pm

The Earl might consult for advice if they were particularly close, but given no members of the royal family have even been invited, it appears Declaen plans to go it alone. In any event, Ewen is a knight of Kaldor for these intents and purposes. 8)
User avatar
Matt
The GM
 
Posts: 2556
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:38 pm
Location: Weymouth, MA

Postby Lord Ewen » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:17 pm

Check. And that is congruent with Rahel's comment to Sir Ewen, to the effect that Caldeth had taken offense at Haldan's handling of Thilisa, and would likely retire to Minarsas and bide his time.

Since Dave has retired from the conversation, and I am left to play tennis with myself, let me run to the other side of the net and return my own volley. The obvious counterweight to any advantages of marrying into a distant foreign family is the more immediate and manifest advantage of alliance with a powerful neighbor. Call it the proximity effect. Any of Caldeth's four chosen suitors bring their own particular benefits, which likely include economic, political, and other factors which are immediately applicable to the business of running the Earldom of Vemion in Kaldor. Benefits deriving from a joining with one of these families are fairly tangible and relevent to life in Kaldor, border and trade issues, court intrigues, cooperation on common goals or against common foes, etc. By comparison, the advantages of obtaining Sir Ewen as a son-in-law are more distant and hypothetical, and for Caldeth would likely represent a harebrained gamble, a missed opportunity to snag the surer benefits of marrying one of the local candidates. Practically speaking, this is likely the biggest and most obvious impediment to getting Caldeth to accept Sir Ewen. The marriage of his daughter and heir to Vemion is a valuable card, and he will want to get as much as he can for his earldom when he plays this card. Given that even Ewen's identity has been difficult to confirm, what would induce Caldeth to forego the obvious benefits of a Kaldoric alliance?
User avatar
Lord Ewen
Baron
Baron
 
Posts: 1055
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:27 pm
Location: Greensboro, NC

Postby Imarë » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:35 pm

I have not totally retired here. There is one aspect that you did not consider for the Earl. Each of these suitors also bring problems as well. With all the infighting involved in this kingdom, having your female heir marry into another family brings the risk that games might be played. Sir Ewen is beyond that. His primary concern would be the continuation of his line, so he is in essence primarily looking for a good stud for his daughter. There is also the problem that if he allies himself with one family, it could upset others who feel the balance of power is being played with. The whole kingdom could capsize... sorry real world intruding here.

My greatest concern at this point is that we over scrutinize the situation and go onto a course of action that is not helpful. If you read the notes you could come away with the impression that the queen wants to bear Sir Ewen's love child just because he tweaked the tail of the king. I think that the note is a good idea and should go forward. I am still neutral on giving suggestion to people without hearing what the suggestion would be (the goal seems very vague). If the Earl does not like Sir Ewen, it is highly unlikely that anything he can do will change this in a short period of time, especially with the rudimentary knowledge that we have.
"Hello Sir Baris. Come and play with us. Come and play with us, Sir Baris. Forever... and ever... and ever."
User avatar
Imarë
In the Blessed Realm
 
Posts: 1347
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 8:02 am
Location: Easton, MA

Postby Matt » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:06 am

Sir Ewen wrote:Any of Caldeth's four chosen suitors bring their own particular benefits, which likely include economic, political, and other factors which are immediately applicable to the business of running the Earldom of Vemion in Kaldor.

Just so. It must be assumed that Vemion is no fool, and that he has chosen his suitors with just these factors in mind. The other might be military. Certainly short term, but probably long as well.

Sir Ewen wrote:By comparison, the advantages of obtaining Sir Ewen as a son-in-law are more distant and hypothetical, and for Caldeth would likely represent a harebrained gamble, a missed opportunity to snag the surer benefits of marrying one of the local candidates.

Too true. OTOH, Declaen Caldeth does seem to be a man who plays the long hand. Surely such a man might be willing to cede short-term advantage for long-term. If he sees it, that is.

Sir Ewen wrote:Practically speaking, this is likely the biggest and most obvious impediment to getting Caldeth to accept Sir Ewen. The marriage of his daughter and heir to Vemion is a valuable card, and he will want to get as much as he can for his earldom when he plays this card.

Also true. He appears to have done this once already. Was not Thilisa married to the Earl of Osel? The real question is can he do it again? Can he marry Thilisa a second time for his own purposes?

Imarë wrote:With all the infighting involved in this kingdom, having your female heir marry into another family brings the risk that games might be played. Sir Ewen is beyond that. His primary concern would be the continuation of his line, so he is in essence primarily looking for a good stud for his daughter.

Dave raises an excellent point here which I do not believe has been considered before. To whit: Sir Ewen is not part of Kaldoric politics except insofar as in intrudes himself. We know that Declaen Caldeth tries to keep himself out of politics. To what degree is this valuable to him in a son-in-law?
User avatar
Matt
The GM
 
Posts: 2556
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:38 pm
Location: Weymouth, MA

Postby Lord Ewen » Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:10 am

True, Sir Ewen is not up to his gills in Kaldoric politics, and can strive to downplay that angle. As well, his royal blood connection to Tharda and Melderyn is highly non-public and mostly non-acknowleged. So the advantage, perhaps, in Sir Ewen is that his political connection to those other kingdoms is presently latent, but of potentially high value if activated, so to speak, down the road. Perhaps if Caldeth wants to play a long game, this is the line to take. A union with Sir Ewen avoids the entanglements Dave correctly identifies with the Kaldoric candidates, but gives the Caldeth clan a union to the Parkhurst family which can lay fallow for a time, but which can be pursued when it is to the earldom's best advantage. It can be thought of as insurance, or a trump card Vemion can hold against the crown for use at a later time.
User avatar
Lord Ewen
Baron
Baron
 
Posts: 1055
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:27 pm
Location: Greensboro, NC

Postby Lord Ewen » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:46 pm

Of course, the value I'm talking about, which may or may not be fully appreciated by Caldeth, increases exponentially when one makes the obvious observation: that Kaldor and Chybisa are the only two remaining kingdoms without Parkhursts on the throne, and the Thardan branch of the clan is rather aggressively acquisitive. But no one in Kaldor behaves like that's much of an issue, at least within our hearing (true, it came up once at a party, and Stimos took pains to soothe everyone), and Sir Ewen can in no way draw attention to this glaringly obvious issue without setting off alarm bells Tharda does not want set off. So Sir Ewen has to avoid the issue with Caldeth, while you would think that a guy like Caldeth would have connected the dots and think: Geez, I'm maybe the only earl in Kaldor who currently knows that this guy is an illegitimate Parkhurst, so I've got a chance to steal a march on everybody and tie him to clan Caldeth before the others know what hit them, which would be a nifty insurance policy on the off-chance that Tharda doesn't settle down to a nice peaceful neighborliness now that they have slaked themselves up there in Orbaal. It seems preposterous that Declaen Caldeth has missed this point, and yet it has been apparent that kingdom-wide denial is the rule here. Or is it?

And speaking of Sir Ewen supposedly not being much encumbered with Kaldoric politics, doesn't it seem unlikely that an interview with Caldeth or Thilisa could go by without Sir Ewen being cross-examined about Maldan Harabor, of all people, giving him three manors? I'm going to need a cover story on that one, and it's a real head-scratcher, don't you think?
User avatar
Lord Ewen
Baron
Baron
 
Posts: 1055
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:27 pm
Location: Greensboro, NC

Previous

Return to I Dare Do all that May Become ...

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

cron