Now That It Has Hit the Fan...

Plans, operations, and intentions

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Postby Matt » Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:28 pm

Sir Ewen wrote:The notes from last session not having been backed up, you can imagine my chagrin.

Indeed - chagrin does not begin to cover it. Are you saying that you have lost your notes from the session? :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Postby Lord Ewen » Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:46 pm

No, no no no. Did I say that? Sorry! I only thought they were lost and completely unrecoverable. No, fear not, the laptop finally spasmed briefly to life and the session notes have been resurrected and hastily transferred to the external drive. Your devoted scribe will toil and, some day soon, the tale of the latest session will be available for all to behold. 8)
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Postby Matt » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:35 pm

Deo gratias. I was quite concerned there for a moment. :D

Sorry to hear about the laptop, of course, though that sort of thing can happen to any hardware. Our older iMac, for example.
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Postby Imarë » Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:20 pm

Nice not to be the lone voice in the woods any longer. I hope all of the computer problems are in the past, not having one is gauling to say the least.

I anticipated the destinations because I thought the lady wife wished to be with child ASAP. Out adventuring seems to be counter to that but it is your domestic situation to deal with. The Kaelyn scenario could be a good one. Imare is up for just about anything so propose away.

On a personal note, if you YouTube "Sandra in Kuwait" you can see the newest member of the clan zooming about in her walker. Please keep in mind she is 9 months old in it (comfortably wearing size 24 months).
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Postby Matt » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:02 am

Sir Ewen wrote:As for destination, I need to give it some thought, but in all honesty I think going straight to ground in Tashal (or to the manors) is the most uninteresting of solutions, so the few thoughts I've had thus far are on a totally different wavelength than the discussion thus far...

Interesting. In this I shall speak not as GM, but as Thilisa. She plans to make for Tashal and with no detours.

That should surface very early in the next session, so I'm giving a bit of a preview here. Of course, if there are other ideas, this also gives you time to develop an argument for her to counter her intent.
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Postby Imarë » Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:50 am

"You might have listed that among our assets. What I wouldn't give for a holocaust cloak".


I bet you enjoyed watching me push for a return to Tashal, using all of my feeble powers of persuasion.
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Postby Matt » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:47 pm

So Van, any further thoughts on the destination issue? I'd much prefer not to wing it next session. :wink:
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Postby Lord Ewen » Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:43 pm

Tashal is fine.

Am I correct in remembering that the city is presently out-of-season, though? In other words, few if any nobles are likely to be present?
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Postby Matt » Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:00 pm

Thanks.

And not at all. It's the second half of the season, with quite a few around. Many of your acquaintance no doubt. Indeed, the major player likely to be missing from your point of view would be Sir Prehil.
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Postby Lord Ewen » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:04 pm

OK, that helps. I was under the impression the season might be over, and Tashal relatively deserted. That happens some time prior to the Chelebin Tourney, no? Or does the tournament inaugurate the campaigning season and close the Tashal social calendar? I know I could comb through the session notes, but asking here is easier...

It would seem worthwhile to discuss here how notable others in the kingdom will view the news of this startling union. The rift between Thilisa and her father, triggered by her marriage to Sir Ewen, seems to create some tasty intrigue possibilities for the whole kingdom which would be somewhat absent in a normal heir's marriage. With Vemion confiscating Thilisa's dower lands and publically vowing to dispossess her, other nobles would have some calculating to do, no? Should they cultivate the new couple with an eye to them being worthwhile allies when Thilisa inherits, risking Vemion's wrath? Should they spurn the couple publically to avoid angering the present Earl, risking Ravinargh revenge when (or if) we come into our own? It will, I think, be fairly evident to all involved that the Ewen - Thilisa duo is a potentially very different beast than Declaen Caldeth, and noblemen will need to perhaps recalculate their politics visa vis the Earldom of Vemion. While I might be overstating things a bit here, I would think that the overall chemistry is potentially much more volatile than in an orderly familial succession.

As for Thilisa and Sir Ewen, I would think we need to aggressively cultivate allies in an attempt to minimize Declaen's chances of pulling off a King Lear and actually disinheriting own his daughter. As I think I suggested in a previous post, I would imagine Declaen would need to cook up a more outrageous accusation against Thilisa to get Haldan (could only the King approve it? GM should feel free to expand upon our state of knowledge of these things...) to okay the disinheriting of Thilisa. (Would finding out his new son-in-law is a Deryni prince clinch it? :shock: ) We must keep in mind Haldan himself is not going to be pleased at all about Thilisa's marriage, I would guess. But what about the Queen? Should we attempt to appeal to her for support? How will she view Sir Ewen now?

Of course, aggressively cultivating alliances and garnering overt or covert support (from the Laranian church? From Balim, Lady Cheselyne, etc.?) seems like a prudent shoring up of our position, to ensure our claim to the Earldom. And if you consider Thilisa's public popularity and sympathetic reputation, as well as the ameliorating effect of a male heir if Thilisa produces one before her sister, the above concerns might look like over-reaction. But I would argue that, more ambitiously, we should use the marriage and our attempts to enlist support against an angry Vemion to hammer a wedge into the existing balance of alliances in Kaldor, upset the apple cart as much as possible, just when a foreign foe might be about to fall upon the northern part of the kingdom. In other words, can we feasibly use the present situation to force nobles to pick a side, create some abrasion where there was none, stir the pot and agitate the kingdom at the key time?

Other questions abound. What about Neph, whose back yard is liable to be the site of said incursion? If I was AoM, and I could fine-tune the timing of things, I would try to delay the upcoming supposed event until the Chelebin tournament, in an attempt to draw the entire flower of Kaldoric chivalry charging into the fray to be destroyed by the barbarians. But if it comes before then, our being in Tashal makes it likely that we will hear the news sooner rather than later. What should we plan to do when the news comes?
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Postby Matt » Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:03 pm

Sir Ewen wrote:I was under the impression the season might be over, and Tashal relatively deserted. That happens some time prior to the Chelebin Tourney, no?

Yes, the season ends at the beginning of Nolus, which is more than a month before the tournament. The idea being to give folks the time to get to Olokand, their manors, or wherever, before the tourney proper begins.

Sir Ewen wrote:With Vemion confiscating Thilisa's dower lands

To clarify here: Thilisa's dower manors were returned when Harabor became Earl of Osel. In exchange, Thilisa received the rights to three Osel manors for her lifetime or until she remarried. Having now done the latter, those manors revert to Osel. Of course, she knew this would be the case.

Sir Ewen wrote:As I think I suggested in a previous post, I would imagine Declaen would need to cook up a more outrageous accusation against Thilisa to get Haldan (could only the King approve it? GM should feel free to expand upon our state of knowledge of these things...) to okay the disinheriting of Thilisa.

Yes, Declaen is within his rights to banish her, and even to cut her off during his lifetime, but he has no power whatsoever to disinherit her. The King could, but only with cause. Essentially, as long as Thilisa commits no treason against the Crown, she inherits providing she is alive when Declaen dies. Further, should she have offspring - boy or girl - who survive, even though she might predecease her father, the children would come before Camissa and her offspring.

Sir Ewen wrote:(Would finding out his new son-in-law is a Deryni prince clinch it? :shock: )

Should not signify one way or the other.

Sir Ewen wrote:We must keep in mind Haldan himself is not going to be pleased at all about Thilisa's marriage, I would guess. But what about the Queen? Should we attempt to appeal to her for support? How will she view Sir Ewen now?

Hard to say how Queen Hesena will view Sir Ewen, but she will certainly welcome the marriage.

Sir Ewen wrote:And if you consider Thilisa's public popularity and sympathetic reputation

This is a significant observation. In your experience, there has never been a hint of Thilisa being anything other than respected. Except, possibly, the Queen. And that may have changed. In any event, it was not on account of her behavior.

Sir Ewen wrote:If I was AoM, and I could fine-tune the timing of things, I would try to delay the upcoming supposed event until the Chelebin tournament, in an attempt to draw the entire flower of Kaldoric chivalry charging into the fray to be destroyed by the barbarians.

They will be in Olokand, whereas the attack is expected near Gardiren. Not so far off, but ...

Sir Ewen wrote:But if it comes before then, our being in Tashal makes it likely that we will hear the news sooner rather than later.

Almost certainly. The King is in Tashal, and such news when brought to him will hardly stay confined to his council chamber.
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Postby Imarë » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:52 pm

With the session staring us in the face, are there any further topics or issues which should be addressed?
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Postby Lord Ewen » Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:57 am

It helps to discuss whether we should try to shape the narrative a bit before leaving Minarsas. For instance, should Sir Ewen pay a visit to Sir Rohn, so the herald can hear the happy news from the banished groom? Should, at the very least, Sir Prehil be told?

As for Tashal, any thoughts on the degree to which Thilisa can be apprised of Sir Ewen's security personnel stationed in the city? Not at all? Fully briefed?
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Postby Imarë » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:07 pm

I would tell Sir Prehil. He is a friend (at least on the surface, there could be levels we don't know about). This would, I believe, spread the story from Sir Ewen's perspective and not leave a void to be filled by the Earl's perspective only. I would send Filen with the news to Sir Rohn. He is the natural conduit for this type of information. A meeting with Sir Rohn, while amusing, gives him more of an opportunity to question Sir Ewen about his heritage, maybe more due to the fact that he has suddenly entered the big leagues of Kaldoric society.

On the security matters, it would be hard to keep that ten men-at-arms live at the house. It will probably be noticed that there is a rotation (probably Sir Rollard would see this). It is the story to be told to account for this that needs tending. (is anyone keeping a Rolodex of the various lies we tell people so we can keep them straight?). I would let her know, if she asks, that there was some trouble in your prior residence which you are anxious to prevent occurring again. You assembled a force to protect both of your primary residences. The sticky part is that they are all identifiably of Thardan origin. Maybe just say they had served you in the past and decided to follow you east out of loyalty.

You now have my $.02
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Postby Matt » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:49 pm

I would just remind that Sir Rollard is presently MIA. Recall Thilisa said she sent him on an errand. To where, for what, how long - all a mystery at present.
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Postby Imarë » Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:40 pm

I was operating on the assumption that, like a bad penny, he would turn up again.
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Postby Matt » Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:03 pm

Very likely. Just not clear when.
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Postby Lord Ewen » Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:18 pm

As you suggest, the Thardan soldiers, no matter how discreetly employed, might prompt Thilisa to think through her evolving concept of who Sir Ewen is. On the other hand, though, the Thardan entourage on the wool common has not (as far as we know) caused much of a stir. if she has already assimilated Sir Ewen' claimed parentage, she certainly has already considered the possibility that he is more than just an isolated Thardan expatriot with a few loyal friends. Or perhaps not. Exactly what she thinks is unclear at this point, and she's not stupid. But Ewen's private business might be a bit irrelevant to her own schemes, by her lights, who knows? As you say, she's bound to notice, and the degree to which this leads her to question Ewen will be suggestive of where her head is at, perhaps. In spite of choosing Ewen to wed, she has not exactly been an open book, nor has she plied Ewen with questions thus far either. I guess my current thinking is to not fret about concealing these things, and see what she does with it.

As for Prehil and Rohn, I think your advice is sound. If Sir Rohn is hanging with Thilisa's uncle again, the interview could be awkward, and Sir Rohn might not appreciate a banished knight sitting down at his table publicly. Although a meeting could lead to useful surprises, you never know. On further reflection, though, I'm not sure Sir Ewen's account will differ greatly from the Earl's, no? I married the Earl's daughter without his permission, and am now persona non grata. But I think there is value in telling the tale myself, looking someone like Prehil in the eye, and letting him know I'll remember those who support Thilisa and me during the Earl's wrath. It seems to me that it would be useful to put as many people as possible in the position of balancing their relations with the current holder of the earldom of Vemion versus the future holders of that earldom. What do you think ?
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Postby Matt » Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:30 pm

Sir Rohn being at the White Horse is not as immediately accessible as Sir Prehil, who after all, is just down the hall. A simple matter of knocking ...

As to the Thardan lads, it is just possible that when Thilisa came by the tent, they were not her first concern. She could not fail to mistake them, however, upon any lengthy association, say, a trip back to Tashal. Whether or not she notes the fact is only dispositive in terms of their numbers. Four or five is a retinue - twenty is a miniature army.
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Postby Lord Ewen » Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:27 pm

Right. Although my remark above was more general, along the lines of there being no audible tattle overheard from any quarter marvelling at the presence of five Thardan sounding soldiers in Sir Ewen's retinue. But yes, I would assume the issue will be a minor one unless she recognizes the total number via rotation, as Dave suggests. And Thilisa is bound to visit the three manors where the remainder of Rollach's company are stashed, no, given that the manors were once - and I guess are again - hers. We should be able to keep the Dickon Parketh soldiery from her for the nonce, though.

As for Sir Rollard. I guess we don't know what retinue Thilisa will be able to put together for herself, specifically in terms of soldiery. Bereft of Osel, we don't know how many men at arms she has. Seemed like she only had Sir Rollard to guard her when out hunting. I'm sure any of her father's men assigned to her protection have now been withdrawn. So, perhaps Sir Rollard is out hiring mercenaries? Or making arrangements in Tashal? I doubt she's just passively expecting Sir Ewen's retinue will suffice, especially since she has no idea about said miniature army.

One curiosity I have been mulling over. After a year here, we have little sense of faction or allies within the greater nobility, which seems odd to me. They intermingle enough, to be sure, exchanging their sons as squires and such, but does Thilisa have no baronial allies after being Countess of Osel for so many years? Is there no sense of who she might turn to as an ally, or who will be unshakably allied to her father? Sure, nobody seems to like Harabor (Osel) much, but aside from that we basically discern no baronial axes or factions at this point. They either don't exist, which seems odd to me, or we have been blind to them in spite of rubbing elbows with a number of baronial scions. I wonder about this because it seems to me that now, having raised our head even further above the parapet by marrying Thilisa, it is time to begin cultivating allies in greater earnest. Thoughts?
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Postby Matt » Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:58 pm

Sir Ewen wrote:After a year here, we have little sense of faction or allies within the greater nobility, which seems odd to me. They intermingle enough, to be sure, exchanging their sons as squires and such, but does Thilisa have no baronial allies after being Countess of Osel for so many years?

Indeed - it does seem to be a hole in your research. Of course, it has not been something you have specifically dwelt upon, but you do know a few things.

- The King and the Earl of Balim are allies along with the Archbishop.

- Vemion is a bit of a loner. None of the earls and few of the barons were present in Minarsas. Of those that were, they were either vassals or nearby.

- Neph also stands alone amongst the earls.

It seems from that data that each boat rests on its own bottom. Perhaps Thilisa was similar. The key question in her case is what precautions has she taken in case she is cut loose from her moorings?
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Postby Imarë » Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:07 pm

If I were Thilisa and I were marrying without my father's permission (in this society), I would have Sir Rollard ferrying anything carried off from my tenure as de facto Earl of Osel. I remember Matt saying after the publication of the demise of her late husband that she was probably stripping as much as she could. She also now lost her dower manors, which themselves have to be stripped of valuables, perhaps even the one's from Osel. This could be one reason why she did not publicize the marriage right away. She seemed to have little or no concern about her father's or sister's feelings.

As for the lads, if the rotation happens frequently and happens within the house as well, I don't think she will get friendly (or familiar) with the help. She will probably notice there are a number of them and have a Thardan accent. I think more than that would be beneath her position (they are the elephant in the room). I would just tell her that you have a strong guard in both your house and manor due to prior problems with an intrusion into your house. Strict accounting would be counterproductive in this area. I would certainly keep the other 20 men at your disposal a secret. I don't think there were 40 troops (plus officers) visible in Vemion's castle. As I recall the discussions at the time most manors provide few soldiers and they are part time. With staff Sir Ewen has a following of near 50 without the manors, including two knights (he would still be fearsome in a dark alley).
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Postby Matt » Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:53 am

Cekiya would have noted a number of guards, and there was never a lack. You might surmise that the Earl had around 40 men at arms and several knights available. This would be an average number, and in no way representative of a war or emergency number.

A baron might have about half that number.

In short, adding the two companies, plus the troops Sir Ewen might levy from his manors, he has an earl's standing troops at his disposal. Of course, a real earl would have many more manors to levy troops from in an emergency, and Sir Ewen would likely top out at 60 or so plus a half dozen knights. It essentially means Sir Ewen can command a force similar to that which a baron might be able to put into the field in an emergency.

None of the above includes militia, of course.
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Postby Lord Ewen » Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:28 pm

A lingering mystery is Sir Rollard's claim that a choice had been made for Thilisa and that Sir Ewen was not it? Did we ever decide whether that was pure fabrication by Sir Rollard, or do we believe some behind-the-scenes person had been selected by the Earl? I don't recall, but it does make a difference now, perhaps. If the Earl had given someone firm hopes, he may have a bone to pick with Sir Ewen. While I imagine we'll not be dragging our feet in evacuating Minarsis, I imagine the news will spread quickly, possibly in time for some unworthy swain to become incensed...

As for one comment from Dave above, I should perhaps defend my wife. While she certainly loathes her father, I believe from her private remarks that she had no intention to ruin Camissa's wedding. Her stated plan was to spare Camissa's wedding as much as possible, perhaps waiting until after the nuptials to break the news to Vemion. Those good intentions were undone by the younger Karsin Ubael, who evidently told Camissa when his spy Kit exposed the secret marriage. Which isn't to deny that my lady wife was implacable when the showdown came, but I don't believe she was entirely oblivious to her sister's feelings and her desire to have a nice wedding.
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Postby Imarë » Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:50 pm

She also could have waited until the wedding was over before her ceremony too. I don't think she went out of her way to insult her sister but I don't think she was moved to avoid giving her pain. I got the impression of a "daddy's girl". That would inflame the situation with Thilisa about what Vemion did to her mother. There are probably multiple reasons for her acting as she does. I would probably wager that Sir Rolard is seeing to some portable items of value.
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