And Now What?

[Lord Ewen]

...the Baron was paying off somebody for reason or reasons unknown. This is what he came to the city for... the person he was paying off did not really want money, he wanted the Baron himself. To this end he caused the robbery. This put the Baron in fear of his life and he fled the city...

My objection to this scenario is: why not ambush the Baron on the way into the city, if seizing the Baron is the goal all along? It makes little sense to lure the Baron into the city with a blackmail ruse, then have to scare him back out of the city to snatch him. To my mind, this argues in favor of Cheryl's hypothesis, wherein Party A (Morgathian? Agrikan?) wants the £20 and later hunts down the Baron when he flees without giving them the dough, while Party B (Sir F and Sir B?) divert the money for their own reasons (upsetting the Baron's plans and leading to his doomed flight). How the LK got in on the action is still fairly murky, as Cheryl acknowledges. But the motive of a single party setting up all this seems incoherent to me: simply lure the guy out of Quste with the money deal and bag him before he gets into Golotha, where things would otherwise get too complicated.

On a totally different topic, does anyone else see the possibility of "Evil Errol" being a sort of theives' cant moniker for "Evil Earl"? Could this still be our Lenesque?

[Imarë]

My thought on why the Baron was lured to the city was timing. If he were coming into the city he could go any time he wished, before whatever deadline there was. He could also be traveling with a group that they happened to meet up with (remember, before the night Sir Felkar was killed he was friendly and outgoing). They knew, once the robbery had occured, that the Baron would flee quickly and not want any strangers around him. For all we know there could have been an ambush set up on their way into the city and something disturbed it. In neither scenario do all the facts fit to what we think is the answer (meaning that it is probably acutally the local Boy Scout Troop who did it, them Weblos can be nasty). I am perfectly willing to look into any and all proposals. Cheryl's may very well be correct and there is nothing there that I disagree with. I just want to make sure that both are looked at for evidence.

[Imarë]

Just an added thought. I am beginning to believe it might not have been money involved in the robbery.

1) Even £20 would be very bulky and would fill a very big bag (and be heavy).

2) If it were an irreplacable item, that might cause the Baron to run, money can be replaced if the danger is great enough (for instance, the armor of Sir Felkar was worth, as I recall £3, I am sure the armor of the Baron would be worth at least as much and weapons, jewlery etc, he could have at least enough money to lead the guy on).

3) If it were simple blackmail, as I originally thought, would the blackmailer kill the victim or let whatever the information was out. I can only go by current standards, murder and capture are the last things a blackmailer does, his one hold is the information at his disposal. If the mark is unable or unwilling to pay the information would be published. Even if it were the repayment of a loan shark, intimidation would be used to make them pay (broken bones etc). But, if this was an item that was taken, one of importance (something of the Earl of Tormau, or the prior King, or even the clan Lenesque) that could not be replaced and the loss would cause somebody to be very mad, then the response of the Baron would make more sense. Any ideas as to whether or not this is a valid idea?

[Sir Baris]

OK, Imarë certainly needs to proceed with whatever degree of caution she sees fit; it is her neck on the line.

Not sure that picking apart your Sir Blors idea is the best use of our time, as I think you have advanced a hypothesis which we need more information to truly test. Coming up with a plan of action for investigating the guy would be quite helpful, though, as unnecessarily pissing off the sheriff if he is, in fact, innocent would be awkward. Again, I nominate Sir Baris for the task, but the good knight will need to speak for himself as to whether such a task would besmirch his honor

What exactly are you nominating me to do? It is true I do not want to continue on your forays to antagonize the Agrikans, in fact I would rather you did not continue, the loss of innocent life seems to me to be a high price to pay, especially when there are perhaps other ways of purusing your goals. Of course you are a free man and I have no jurisdiction in this city. But as for investigating the Baron, I too am troubled by his actions towards Felkar- or rather, his inaction allowing his body to be so poorly treated. How do you propose I investigate his ties to Felkars murder?

[apoligies for not being more active on this thread, for some reason it was not notifying me of replies. Since Matt let us know there was a "lively" discussio I have been busy at work so I have not had a chance to catch up]

[edited to remove extraneous quote]

[Imarë]

I think Ewen was thinking of exploiting the relationship, casual at most, between Sir Baris and Sir Blors. I believe it was mentioned that they had met during the rebellion, though were not close. What you would be able to do would depend on what is there. I don't know what mentioning that Sir Tovar told you (white lie) that a knight, one Sir Felkar had been killed in the city would bring about. You could also casually drop that one of his patrols brought in three dead bodies found in shallow graves. It would also be interesting to see if he is surly with another knight or is that just reserved for our party. I don't believe it would be wise to announce your current connection to us, he does not seem to like us that much.

Any other ideas what Sir Baris could do to find out things from Sir Blors?

[Lord Ewen]

I believe we were proposing that you might investigate the Sheriff of Zabinshire, Sir Blors Manfrungtane (referred to above as "Sir B"). We have been debating the degree to which he might have been involved in the various events leading up to the ambush of the Baron's party (see above). Sir B was present in Coranan when Bevan was charged with the present mission, and has since declared it a waste of time. He knew the murdered Sir Felkar as well. While we have differed as to the question of how involved he might be in things, we all feel (I believe) that it would be worth gathering information to either exonorate him or to discover what role he played. It was this task I was suggesting you might take on. It would require tact and subtlety, as I think we all agree that blundering about and getting a potentially innocent Sheriff pissed off would be bad policy. Perhaps we might use this thread to discuss just how such an investigation should proceed, as opposed to waiting until game day to debate it.

As for Ewen's involvement with the Agrikans, I still intend to post regarding my planned next steps, in order to give you guys a chance to comment, critique, etc. But I do not plan to abandon my involvement with them due to the loss of a sub-standard drinking establishment known for serving lamentably foul ale. And it seems open to debate as to who exactly was innocent at the Silk Hat, and what they were innocent of...

[Lord Ewen]

One risk of neglecting to mention Sir Baris' link to the party might involve Blors and Tovar talking. They were both in Sir Auram's chamber, and we have seen Blors enter the castle, although we don't know who he meets with there. A more subtle strategy might be to acknowlege the connection with the party, but voice some scepticism about Bevan's mission or how she's going about it. If Sir Blors is guilty, he may attempt to steer Sir Baris in a certain direction, and that itself might be instructive.

[Imarë]

I agree with the comment Ewen makes about at least gathering infomation.

I did not say not to tell Sir Blors if he asks, just don't go in with it as a primary weapon. Perhaps Theron would be helpful, have Sir Baris say he is hanging out with the child of an old friend of his fathers. I just did not want it to look as if he is there just trying to pump the man for information. The attitude of his servants and retainers would also be good to gauge. Perhaps the hiring of an Irregular on that bank of the river to keep watch on who comes and goes (and in what direction) would be one thing to do.

[Matt]

apologies for not being more active on this thread, for some reason it was not notifying me of replies.

I'd noticed that too, and my apologies for not knowing enough about the inner workings of the SW to fix it. I'll look into it though.

[Matt]

Perhaps Theron would be helpful, have Sir Baris say he is hanging out with the child of an old friend of his fathers.

Well, that would be an out-and-out lie. There is no connection between Theron and Sir Baris's family. Nor, to your knowledge, a connection between Theron and Sir Blors.

Further, I suspect Bevan would rather go swimming naked in the canal in the early morning imitating a floater near Boraga's barge while drinking lots and lots of the water.

[Sir Baris]

One risk of neglecting to mention Sir Baris' link to the party might involve Blors and Tovar talking. They were both in Sir Auram's chamber, and we have seen Blors enter the castle, although we don't know who he meets with there. A more subtle strategy might be to acknowlege the connection with the party, but voice some scepticism about Bevan's mission or how she's going about it. If Sir Blors is guilty, he may attempt to steer Sir Baris in a certain direction, and that itself might be instructive.

That sounds like a good plan. I think it would be best to simply go and look him up as a comrade from the war, and chat. Then I can casually mention Felkar, and how I heard about it, and how I feel bad about his body not being taken care of. Something like "Oh, as a knight I am sure you too are wounded about how his body was cared for, or rather how it was not cared for..." Then we can see how he reacts. Obviously we need to strategize a bit more on exactly how to converse with Blors.

[Imarë]

I did realize that this would be a lie. Bevan does not have to be involved in the lie, or does she need to hear Sir Bairs state it. I was just trying to think of a plausable explanation to tell Sir Blors if he knows the connection or it is felt something needs to be told him upfront. I did not think that any other pretend connection between the party and Sir Baris would sound as convincing since everybody knows Theron.

[Sir Baris]

Wow, it sure took me awhile to read all these conspiracy theories. Here is mine, though it does not account for all the events under discussion:

The baron fled town because of the markings on Felkar's body. (Correct me if I am wrong, but the Baron did flee after seeing Felkar's body?) He feared the killer who made those markings. Maybe it was not rational for him to do so (why would the killer warn him, for instance. Although the killer may not have intended for the baron to see the markings- he did leave the body in a dark alley, after all).

We still don't know exactly what was in Felkar's bag, it is possible it was not money. It does seem the robbery and murder are not connected, because it does not make sense to do them at different times. Unless that is what they *want* us to think.

My theory has no explanation of why the baron entered the city, why Felkar was robbed and murdered, or Blors reactions to the death. I simply offer it as an alternative explanation for why the Baron fled.

[Bevan]

Just an added thought. I am beginning to believe it might not have been money involved in the robbery. 1) Even £20 would be very bulky and would fill a very big bag (and be heavy).

Not sure what you are basing this on. The rumor mill have eggagerated the amount, but I don't see how it could have changed from an object to money. Mogger also said he was respondsible for bringing in a good amount of money into the "company". I think we need to stick with what we know. Putting in too many variables will get us no where. If some thing new develops that points us in another direction than I will be open to the possibility.

3) If it were simple blackmail, as I originally thought, would the blackmailer kill the victim or let whatever the information was out.

It is possible it wasn't blackmail but extortion.

[Bevan]

Perhaps Theron would be helpful, have Sir Baris say he is hanging out with the child of an old friend of his fathers.

Well, that would be an out-and-out lie. There is no connection between Theron and Sir Baris's family. Nor, to your knowledge, a connection between Theron and Sir Blors.

Further, I suspect Bevan would rather go swimming naked in the canal in the early morning imitating a floater near Boraga's barge while drinking lots and lots of the water.

Yeah. I think that just about sums it up

[Lord Ewen]

I agree that the last thing we need to be doing is associating our names with a shameless purveyor of card tricks

[Lord Ewen]

OK then, some ideas Ewen will pursue amongst the Agrikans during the next session:

- Learn about the demise of Mogger. Was Merky's tale accurate? What do they make of the hound thing? What do they think will happen next?

- What do they think of the chandler? The LK? Do they expect trouble from Jarop? What do they know of Mogger's associates?

- Are they aware of the seizure of the Baron? Who has him, and what for? If they don't have him, can I interest them in screwing things up for whoever does?

- Learn more about the Morgathian / Agrikan alliance. How do the Agrikans perceive the Morgathians? Probe for possible fault lines in this alliance.

- Broaden my involvement with the Agrikans. Try to meet Sir Zaurial's uncle, Sir Klyrdes. Try to meet "the Prophet". Probe for fault lines within the Agrikan church in Golotha. What are the ambitions of the Agrikan community in the city?

The above is just a starter list, and I'd like to expand it by game day. Gimme your wish list, my dears.

Attempting to subdue the appetite for destruction among these guys seems a lost cause, though, and I shan't try. Steering it, however, may be a different matter. Any suggestions?

[Imarë]

The Agrikans are the ones that guard the city. See if you can find out if anything funny happened the day the Baron was taken. Did Sir Blors ride through the city? Did any of his retainers?

I have no problem with cozying up to the Agrikans, just please try to point them away from Imare, one blood crazed mob after you per year is enough.

If anybody has a more palatable idea of what to say to Sir Blors when he finds out Sir Baris is involved with us please put it forward. I did not think the idea would make Bevan happy but I did not want Sir B claming up if he finds out that Sir Baris has been hanging out with a group he seems to be openly antagonistic towards. Does Sir Blors have knights under him? Would Sir Baris be more familiar and friendly toward somebody in the household? We have been going to the top, maybe we could aim a little lower.

[Imarë]

For Imare it comes down to the one solid clue we had was Mogger. I am still trying to come up with a way that she could cultivate his friends. I suppose she could go bar diving until she found one of the three she knows and try to strike up a conversation. She could be concerned because she has not seen him since the morning after the fire. It would at least be interesting to see what they would tell her. Any other thoughts as to the next step?

[Bevan]

I don't know how well Sir Baris knows Sir Blors, but what if he tried a camaraderie approach, swap tales on the rebellion, catching up on current news, talk about the current war he meant join before he missed the boat....Perhaps this can lead to other information after a few ales. (Although I suspect it would take a lot of ale effect Sir B.)

[Sir Baris]

I don't know how well Sir Baris knows Sir Blors, but what if he tried a camaraderie approach, swap tales on the rebellion, catching up on current news, talk about the current war he meant join before he missed the boat....Perhaps this can lead to other information after a few ales. (Although I suspect it would take a lot of ale effect Sir B.)

That sounds like what I was going for. But Imare makes a good point about me being connected to a group possibly seen as antagonistic by Sir Blors. Perhaps I could shrug off my connections- sure, I am working with them but I do not share their feelings towards him, or something like that. How exactly have you been antagonistic to Blors (other than the plotting)?

[Imarë]

The party, either as a whole or individually, has never done anything to antagonize Sir Blors. He was at a meeting where Bevan and Arva (now departed) were charged with an intelligence gathering mission ot Golotha by Sir Auram Graver, the Inquisitor General of Tharda. Sir Blors was antagonistic toward the mission then and has continued to be so. When the party first ran into him at the Bridgetower Inn he as much as identified the party, in public, as doing a mission for the government. He refuses to answer the most mundane of questions which are asked and is generally quite rude. This is what, in my mind at least, what has caused the question of loyalty which the party is entertaining. I would consider, at the very least, downplaying any connection with the party. If you can avoid bringing up the association that would be great. If he already knows, I would not count on getting a whole lot of information out of him. It could be that he thinks his abilities are being questioned (although the city is not his turf) or that the party, as constituted before you joined, was not worthy of his interest or help. His attitude now that there is a knight of the realm involved would be good to learn. I would still think up a good cover story however.

[Sir Baris]

The party, either as a whole or individually, has never done anything to antagonize Sir Blors. He was at a meeting where Bevan and Arva (now departed) were charged with an intelligence gathering mission ot Golotha by Sir Auram Graver, the Inquisitor General of Tharda. Sir Blors was antagonistic toward the mission then and has continued to be so. When the party first ran into him at the Bridgetower Inn he as much as identified the party, in public, as doing a mission for the government. He refuses to answer the most mundane of questions which are asked and is generally quite rude. This is what, in my mind at least, what has caused the question of loyalty which the party is entertaining. I would consider, at the very least, downplaying any connection with the party. If you can avoid bringing up the association that would be great. If he already knows, I would not count on getting a whole lot of information out of him. It could be that he thinks his abilities are being questioned (although the city is not his turf) or that the party, as constituted before you joined, was not worthy of his interest or help. His attitude now that there is a knight of the realm involved would be good to learn. I would still think up a good cover story however.

Hm. That does complicate things, though I still think approaching him for information could be fruitful. I do not want to lie about my association to the party, but I don't need to bring it up, either. If it does come up, I'll simply tell the truth. After missing the war, I was looking for something to do and Sir Tovar suggested I inquire if your group needed any assistance. I can downplay it by saying that I would much rather be fighting for the king than doing this. How does that sound?

[Matt]

I would still think up a good cover story however.

In this I still strongly recommend the truth. He knows Sir Tovar and must know Sir Hadas both of whom know the party's business in Golotha. Being caught in a lie would be ten times worse than having an association with the party.

Perhaps I could shrug off my connections- sure, I am working with them but I do not share their feelings towards him, or something like that.

This approach seems more on target, with the proviso as Dave noted that the party has not been openly antagonistic. Indeed, trying the tack (if it comes up) that Sir Tovar suggested it, but you find their methods questionable and doubt their success may go a long way ...

[Matt]

I do not want to lie about my association to the party, but I don't need to bring it up, either. If it does come up, I'll simply tell the truth. After missing the war, I was looking for something to do and Sir Tovar suggested I inquire if your group needed any assistance. I can downplay it by saying that I would much rather be fighting for the king than doing this. How does that sound?

Heh, typing at the same time we were - GMTA.