Why?

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Why?

Postby Arva » Thu May 16, 2013 1:19 pm

So, why did Meden Curo agree to talking/discussing with Ewen about the King's decision to give Harabor a keep? (I would be more accurate of which keep it was, if only there was a decent slash different map in dropbox or if I had my maps with me)

We know Prehil likes Ewen and considers him a friend...but Meden?
I feel like a new person....
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Re: Why?

Postby Lord Ewen » Thu May 16, 2013 6:47 pm

That's been bugging me as well, and I appreciate you bringing it up because I think it would behoove us to debate that very question prior to sorting out what "recommendation" we want to put forward next session regarding Ternua (the Barony) after the Verdreths (the dispossessed).

I agree with the way you frame it as well: why would Sir Meden, of all people, give a fig what Sir Ewen thinks? On the surface it suggests that Sir Ewen has not been a topic of conversation between himself and his father, because the Earl was not exactly Ewen's bosom buddy (Ewen took the black rose without holding up his end of the bargain, he beat Curo in the race to obtain and retain a certain sword, he survived Curo's attempts to kill him by an assassination covered by arson - the last is apparently a favorite stunt among Earls!). However, that logic presupposes that Sir Meden and Sir Prehil are genuinely wanting Ewen's input and advice, which I think is a highly dubious proposition.

Some possibilities (not mutually exclusive), to be added to by others perhaps:

1. The two scions (or Meden alone) want to use Sir Ewen as a sacrificial lamb should a conspiracy on their part go wrong, implicating him in its creation.

2. The two scions are hatching a conspiracy, and want to feel out Sir Ewen by seeing how conventional vs. rebellious his suggestions might be. In this case, the actual recommendation from Ewen might not matter in the specifics, but seeing how far out of the box he is willing to go is the test, and if he is too conventional they will refrain from letting him further in on the conspiracy.

3. Alternately, they are aware of some other conspiracy afoot, they wish to counter it, and innoculate Sir Ewen against it by allying him with them before he is recruited to the other side. This is just an alternate version of their official story, where "conspiracy" is "the King's inclination".

4. They already have their plan laid out for Ternua and want to see if Ewen will interfere with it.

5. They really don't know what to do yet (as they are sort-of claiming), and Prehil has told Meden that this Ewen guy is a real fountain of ideas. :roll:

6. Meden is trying to smoke out a disloyal Curo, or Curo a disloyal Meden, and Sir Ewen will be used as a witness or nailed as a co-conspirator.

That's just off the top of my head. Anyone want to add to it, refute the probability of one or more, or vote for a favorite?

Other things we don't know? Who else opposes Harabor getting Ternua? And why does Meden even care about Ternua (his affinity is in the north)?
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Re: Why?

Postby Sir Aeomund » Fri May 17, 2013 10:03 am

I don't believe that it is officially a conspiracy. The King has said it in the small council, but has not yet decreed in public. I agree that "the Ewen is a tenant of the king so we want his opinion" defense is a little thin. My thoughts are that Meden and Prehil are not on the same page with this. I think Prehil came to Ewen because he values his opinion and I think he is looking for viable options. Another vote for the looking for options camp is that Prehil specifically asked Aeomund as a knight of the LoP what he thought. Meden I think has a seperate agenda, but is going along with Prehil to see what shakes out. Meden has no dog in the fight per se, the Firiths however may feel lonely if Turnua goes to Osel.

Looking at it from a kingdom earldom dimension the King's decision is a good one. The bad one was making it personal and banishing all sorts of people.

My recomendation is that Ewen put forward the notion that the King's reassignment not be changed, but that he executes with a softer hand. What other holdings is the family being dispossessed of?
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Re: Why?

Postby Matt » Fri May 17, 2013 3:57 pm

Sir Aeomund wrote:Looking at it from a kingdom earldom dimension the King's decision is a good one. The bad one was making it personal and banishing all sorts of people.

My recomendation is that Ewen put forward the notion that the King's reassignment not be changed, but that he executes with a softer hand. What other holdings is the family being dispossessed of?

Banishing the Baron's sister from the kingdom might be a recognition that as a Shek-Pvar she may exact revenge in unique and unpredictable ways. The spouses of children may be a stretch - Haldan may relent if suitable salaaming goes on.

The barony would have quite a few manors associated with it, at least twenty, some of which would be held by vassal knights and some by bailiffs. Annual income for such a fief would be in the £1000+ zone. All would go to the new holder of the barony.
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Re: Why?

Postby Lord Ewen » Fri May 17, 2013 5:10 pm

Matt wrote: Banishing the Baron's sister from the kingdom might be a recognition that as a Shek-Pvar she may exact revenge in unique and unpredictable ways. The spouses of children may be a stretch - Haldan may relent if suitable salaaming goes on.


This reminds me - does Kaelyn have any insight about who may be favored for the next Kaldoric Master of the Esoteric? Will not our three Shek P'var adversaries be likely to try to influence the King's choice in this (assuming, that is, that Quillan and Sir Jahmis haven't already decamped)? Can Garth give her the inside odds next session? Is Aethel Atan in the running? (Against such a notion would be his love of travel, overt attitude of being above poilitics - which may however be bullshit, and the dynastic complexities of his relation to the wrong branch of the Elendsa dynasty).

As for Aeomund's observations, I agree with your conclusions regarding Prehil and Meden's different motives, so we are on the same page, although I think we should be cautious about being too certain about Prehil, for instance. Having said that, your take on the situation is clearly the most sound, given what we presently know.

The way the meeting at the end of last session played out was strange, no? They asked Ewen's read on the King's priorities, and Ewen readily gave an answer which agreed with Meden and lost Prehil a bet. Then they asked Ewen what the King would be better off doing, and he suggested the Lady of Paladins idea favored by Aeomund, which they discounted due to the King's bitterness about the oath. Then, instead of saying the natural thing ("well, it seems you have no better solution than we do, Ewen..."), they throw it back at Ewen, as if he is supposed to keep coming up with answers until he hits the "right" one. Or, at least, that's how it felt to me. Anyone hear the exchange differently?

One big meta-question on my mind remains this: Should Ewen's suggestion lean in the direction of safe, conservative governance for the King's realm, amplifying the impression that Ewen and Co. are dependable supporters of the throne's best interest, disinclined toward skullduggery, and reassuring to anyone concerned about Ewen being a foreign-born danger? Or should his answer suggest a willingness to wade into factional, divisive politics, someone willing to ruthlessly push the advantage of himself and his friends, perhaps even engage in conspiracies to undermine other factions, amplifying the impression that Ewen is a force to be dealt with and to concerned about, in the hopes of being invited deeper into the games of skullduggery?
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Re: Why?

Postby Goreg » Sat May 18, 2013 4:06 pm

In an unprecedented situation, I think we're being a little too cynical.

Prehil and Curo have a problem, and there aren't many people they can expect to be sympathetic. It's akin to starting a labor union in a firm with a hostile boss. Their only prayer is to get enough supporters before the boss finds out about the effort. Prehil likes and respects Ewen, and would like to have him on board. Curo probably doesn't do either, but recognizes the need for somebody, anybody. I don't actually think they want Ewen to take the lead on the effort. They just framed the question that way in order to make it amenable to him.

I'm not sure what to do. The classic approach is to, in effect, reply "I'll support this if you can demonstrate you already have general support." Stall, I suppose, until the temperature of public opinion can be gauged.
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Re: Why?

Postby Goreg » Sat May 18, 2013 4:49 pm

Or to put it another way: Prehil and Curo are attempting something with a high degree of risk and a low expectation of reward. Anyone normal would tell them to get bent. So they're turning to Ewen, who's abnormal.
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Re: Why?

Postby Lord Ewen » Sat May 18, 2013 6:49 pm

Sounds like a vote for staying on the safe side of the spectrum...

One angle on this we have not mentioned thus far: Sir Ewen caused quite a stir by acquiring three manors from Maldan Harabor under rather odd circumstances. Harabor's claim of losing them to Ewen in a bet was designed to stab Ewen in the back, but only confused things further. Such a singular event would be unlikely to escape the attention of men such as Prehil and Curo, and their present story is that they wish to divert the King's plan to grant Harabor the Barony of Ternua. How do we think this factors in?
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