And Now What?

[Lord Ewen]

OK, scratch my preoccupation with the ferry - the word appeared in my jottings about Bevan and Imarë going to check out the tracks, and I took it to mean the ferry was crossed.

According to the official session notes for Larane 11, the Baron's retinue left the Bridgetower twenty minutes after we sat down to breakfast. Granted, the meal was probably later than usual that morning due to all of the drama upstairs about the body. My own notes from the same day indicate that Sir Blors sent the man into the Inn when we were eating dinner. Perhaps Cheryl's notes might help confirm this (see unreliability of harper's notes, above ). Sir Blors at least did a good job of acting surprised at the Baron's abandonment of the body of his kinsman and departure from the city. While not exonerating him of involvement in these matters, it seems to me to rule out a scenario in which he was responsible for waylaying the Baron, as the timing doesn't fit by a mile.

Who would have known that the Baron was likely to flee from the city following the robbery and murder of Sir Felkar? We know for sure that the Lia Kavair was involved in that crime; perhaps they had reason to suspect the Baron would flee. Or perhaps the murderer of Sir Felkar was watching the Baron and arranged the ambush (assuming the Lia Kavair and the three-mascles murderer are unaffiliated). It seems to me whoever took action against the Baron was ready, somehow anticipated his reaction to what happened to Felkar, and was able to act very quickly. Any other ideas on this?

[Matt]

If I read my scribblings correctly, the ambush took place on the mainland side of the ferry crossing, about thirty minutes (at wagon speed?) along the road to Quste. Was that thirty minutes from the ferry, or from Golotha?

From Golotha. Your sense is that the 'ambush' took place on the island, before the ferry. Thus the ferryman should have no data, although might be able to at least confirm that the Baron's party did not (or did) cross the northern arm of the Thard.

Did Bevan follow the Baron as far as the ferry that morning?

No. Bevan followed a few hundred yards north of the Smoking Meken and then stopped.

And exactly how fast did the assailants have to act in order to mount the assault on the Baron? They seemed very fast indeed. Can we narrow down possible suspects based on the time frame here?

A key question indeed and one dependent on factors such as speed of informants, mounted/not mounted, ahead of the Baron or behind him. Many variables in play.

[Imarë]

In my scenario, the thieves were supposed to just rob Sir Felkar. I was supposion that whatever the blackmail was about would cause him to run when his delivery was disturbed. If the murder happened without their knowlege, his death would be a surprise. We do not know if there was surprise about the flight of the Baron. If it was Sir Blors involved, he would have seen that Sir Felkar was not wih the Baron when intercepted. If he thought he had been left behind to explore what happened with the payment/robbery, he would want to complete the job hence his going to the inn where he was staying. Again, if it were Sir Blors involved, they would have had to do something with the Baron before coming in to see what happened to the retainer. There was no rush involved because the fleeing party would not be missed for several days. If it were not for the party bringing the information to the attention of Sir Tovar the fact that the Barons party had been ambushed would still not be known. Once again, why did not Sir Blors try to get the body of a supposed friend back for proper burial and let him be cremated like a commoner? Why did he not bring the fact that a knight had been murdered in the city to the attention of the castle garrison?
As for why the Baron flew from the city, that would depend on what was in the leather sack and what was going on. Put yourself in the Barons place. If your retainer/cousin/heir were murdered in a major city, what would you do? Fly from the protection available in a city, either in the place you were until you found out what was going on or go to either Sir Blors, just outside the gate the inn was on or go to the royal garison and ask for protection. I think the reason he flew was not directly because Sir Felkar was killed, it was because he was robbed. Why was he carring something with a great rumored value alone and at night without his armor? We know the city is a dangerous place unless you might believe you have some kind of protection? Where Sir Felkar was killed would tend to rule out Sir Blors as the payee (the direction and time is wrong). Neither the actions of the Baron nor Sir Blors follows what I would consider a rational line. If we are correct in assuming that the murderer was not involved with the plot to rob Sir Felkar and was again sending some kind of message to us, why would he persue the Baron, wipe out his party and take the Baron without leaving his typical calling card? As nobody but the party and the Barons party seems to have known the knight was killed (the embalmer had no idea who the body belonged to) and the staff at the inn did not find out until much later it would kind of quell that line. Thinking back to what Mogger told Imare, he had been involved with what sounded like a big heist. If there were supposed to be murder involved (and of a Rethemi knight no less) I don't know if he would have been so open in his comments. If my deluded ramblings are correct and Sir Blors is involved, what would be his motivation? Does anybody have any idea what his lineage might be? If he were found to be related to the Baron it could open up interesting avenues as to motive here. The Baron, as far as we know, was kept alive for some purpose, could it to have been to name a new successor? I think I will now go and look up information on Roswell, the Kennedy assasination, and the Pearl Harbor attack to continue on my conspiracy theories as I seem to be on a roll here.

[Matt]

Why was he carring something with a great rumored value alone and at night without his armor?

Recall that neither Pix nor Trelk was aware that Sir Felkar had gone out. He also would have had to get by Dascomb. Armor is noisy and difficult to put on, and mail would make some sound even whilst moving. He may not have wanted to alert the guards and so did not don his armor - he did take his weapons you'll note.

I think I will now go and look up information on Roswell, the Kennedy assasination, and the Pearl Harbor attack to continue on my conspiracy theories as I seem to be on a roll here.

Heh - lovely to see that I have you chasing your tail ...

[Lord Ewen]

OK, I agree that Dave's scenario allows for the possibility that Sir Blors ambushed the Baron, and then came to the inn looking for Sir Felkar, although I believe it presupposes a capacity for dissembling on Sir Blors' part which seems to contradict Rahel's depiction of him as stolid but unimaginative. But it's plausible, and it gives us a line to pursue. As Imarë and Ewen, we agree, are to concentrate on the underworld side of things, perhaps investigating Sir Blors would be more to the taste of Sir Baris? Looking discretely into the issue of the sheriff's lineage probably couldn't hurt, and finding out more about his movements on the 11th and since would be important. Also, finding out where else he frequents in the city, and with whom, might also be helpful. If he has the Baron, where would he have taken him? Caer Chakta? This would require him getting his captive over Dedergon Bridge, or crossing the Thard elsewhere by boat. Did whoever seized the Baron return him to the city proper (via Arren Gate?), or is he held somewhere in the precincts east of the city? How would they have concealed the Baron in transporting him? Can we come up with a list of critical geographic points, such as these, and interview witnesses who might have seen something unusual on the 11th? The trail is admittedly a bit cold after seven days, and if the Baron is still alive his days may be numbered, depending on his abductor's plans for him...

Any thoughts on my earlier suggestion that Imarë contact Jarop directly at this point?

[Imarë]

Imare does not think direct contact is the way to go. First, I do not believe that Mogger mentioned Jarop. Why would she suddenly go and see him if she wanted to be included in a job? To her the logical way to go would be to try to get close with the group which includes our friend the scarred man. I have not been able to come up with a way of doing this not using a direct approach, which does not seem right.
As for Sir Blors, I just don't know. Rahel did say he was unimaginative but I can't say if he is involved (only a hypothesis) or if the scenario was put in front of him by somebody else. He could have just had a great idea (a kind of Kind Hearts and Coronets, List of Adrian Messenger idea). I think one of the ideas I proposed was to bring Rahel in the sphere of the Lia Kavir. If this is so and Sir Blors is the client who arranged for the robbery she might be trying to protect a client. The Sir Blors seems to me to be the weakest link in my chain (proof wise). I just cannot get over his actions and responses since we have known him. Granted Imare has no real idea how a noble would react to the situation, but his just seem off. Why the antipathy toward the group? We are not wasting his resources on the investigation. We are not prying into his turf. Yet he is antagonistic at every turn. You notice that if we find anything about the murder of Sir Felkar we should come to him for his actions, but he is not the legal authority of Golotha. He professes wanting to get revenge for a friend but he allows that frined to be cremated as a pauper instead of trying to get a dignified interment. Only if the group gets him answers will he be willing to do anything at all according to him, or would the group meet an ending similar to Trilk and his companions? You don't need imagination to want to get something in life, just an idea. As I said above, please pick apart my argument. I am defending the idea, you guys attack it.

[Lord Ewen]

OK, Imarë certainly needs to proceed with whatever degree of caution she sees fit; it is her neck on the line.

Not sure that picking apart your Sir Blors idea is the best use of our time, as I think you have advanced a hypothesis which we need more information to truly test. Coming up with a plan of action for investigating the guy would be quite helpful, though, as unnecessarily pissing off the sheriff if he is, in fact, innocent would be awkward. Again, I nominate Sir Baris for the task, but the good knight will need to speak for himself as to whether such a task would besmirch his honor

or if the scenario was put in front of him by somebody else. He could have just had a great idea (a kind of Kind Hearts and Coronets, List of Adrian Messenger idea

not sure I followed you here

[Imarë]

Sorry, Kind Hearts and Coronets and the other revolve around an individual removed from a title who kill everybody above them in order to become the noble themself. He could have gotten the idea himself (everybody has flashes of genius) or somebody could have put him up to it (maybe for later blackmail purposes?)

As to picking apart my idea, I am talking about the whole thing and if anybody can spot an obvious flaw in my reasoning. Pissing the Sheriff off if he is guilty is a bad idea also, we need to bring some evidence to Sir Auram and let the government deal with any problems. It will be interesting to see if Sir Blors and Sir Baris interacting. If he knows that Sir Baris is working with the group we will know that Sir Blors is keeping an eye on us.

[Matt]

It will be interesting to see if Sir Blors and Sir Baris interacting. If he knows that Sir Baris is working with the group we will know that Sir Blors is keeping an eye on us.

Sir Baris and Sir Blors met two years ago, but the relationship does not rise above that. However, you know that Sir Blors is 'in' with the Legion in the castle and may indeed be aware that Sir Tovar put Sir Baris and the party together.

I think, however, that Sir Baris is just the fellow for the task, if Teddy you're up for it.

[Lord Ewen]

Thanks for the clarification, Dave. The recent death of two potential Quste heirs does seem critical. Perhaps a College of Heralds inquiry into the Quste bloodline as well as Sir Blors is in order, but how to do that without it getting back to Sir Blors is an issue. (I'm not as worried about the Baron getting wind of it, as I imagine his plate is full with other concerns for the moment.)

[Bevan]

I’ve read so much that it has actually begun to make my head spin. So I went totally off line and began to hypothesize on my own. Many of your own thoughts have woven their way into my ideas, but be patient. My thoughts will circle back to the beginning and to some other aspect of my hypothesis.

First my focus is on two items (as I think them to be) the robbery of Sir Felkar Uldseth and the murder of Sir Felkar Uldseth (going forth will be known as Sir F because well Felkar is too much to keep typing).

We keep asking why was Sir Blors was looking for Felkar on Larane 11. Here are my thoughts - it has something to do with the money. We know Sir F was the next in line for the Barony (and just a few weeks before he was 2nd in line to inherit…hmmmm ) Sir B and Sir F are very friendly as observed the first night at the Bridgetower. I think it quite possible Sir B was helping Sir F to achieve his goal. But first we have to ask what was the Baron of Quste doing in Golotha with so much ££? This stems from some other thoughts I have been having about the mission which I have been meaning to open a new thread on. (hopefully will soon ). In 728 the Baron of Quste had already sworn his loyalty to the Earl of Tormau. In the rebellion against King Arren II, Lord Tormau also had the Morgathians and the Agrikans on his side. I wonder what the M and A think of the Baron groveling to the King for his miserable little life after Tormau’s defeat? Perhaps the £20 was what he paid on some sort of schedule to them to save his life? (Thus leading to Dave’s blackmail suspicions.)

If Sir F killed the cousin unknown who was next in line to inherit, it would seem an easy task to see the Baron killed. How do you do this so as not to have his blood directly on your hands? Give cause for the Morgathians and Agrikans to do the job by stealing the money meant for them. As GM said:

Armor is noisy and difficult to put on, … He may not have wanted to alert the guards and so did not don his armor ….

Perhaps it wasn't just the guards he didn't want to disturb. This would explain:

(1) Why Sir Felkar was out that night with the ££ (more comments below)
(2) Why the Baron fled town so quickly - being in fear of the psychotic M’s & frat boy A’s
(3) Why the Baron couldn’t give a rat’s tuckus what happened to Sir F’s body – being betrayed by him and all
(4) Why Sir B was reticent to seek Sir F’s body - being involved and all
(5) Why Sir B did not report the death of Sir F to Sir Tovar - again being involved and all

Further comments on (1) Sir F would not want to be around when the Morgathians come to collect and find there is nothing to collect. Where would he go? His dear friend Sir B has a nice, well-secured castle just outside Golotha proper. Once the M’s punish the Baron, Sir F is able to claim the barony. On that particular evening he may have planned a drop to deliver the ££ to Sir B. Compensation for his help and protection. Sir B could also like the idea of having Sir F in his pocket once he is the new Baron of Quste.

We know Sir F was robbed by Mogger and friends. Who organized it? Since there was a large sum expected to be gained then the most likely candidate is Jarop, being the guild master of the LK. How did he know that Felkar would be out that particular night with the money? I have not been able to answer this. One thought is Jarop learned from his Morgathian high priest brother. Seems unlikely unless they were hanging out, chatting about old time and new times, a few bottles of blood wine later and he lets it slip. I would think brother or no brother he would be in deep doo doo for stealing from the Morgathians.

Now the murder of Sir Felkar Uldseth. Many times it has been brought up that is seemed too convenient that the murder occurred right after the robbery. I now have to agree. Due to the similarities of the murder to the murder of Pelisa of Thoff, it seems they have a bit to do with the song and the Pallisers. He seems to have followed us from Coranan and kept close watch on us to know who we know. How could the murderer have heard of the robbery? Frankly from anyone who was involved or had knowledge of; Mogger, Mogger friends, Jarop, etc. ... It could be anyone. We don’t know who knew about the robbery prior to it occurring. (What this has to do with the song/Pallisers I still have no idea and maybe a new thread needs to be started ...)

[Bevan]

A few things to learn:

(1) How did the Lia-Kavair learn about the £ the Baron brought to Golotha?

(2) How did the LK know that Sir Felkar would be out that night with the £?

(3)If the murderer learned of the heist indirectly, why did the LK not kill him? Were they planning to hold Sir Felkars deceit over his head once he inherited the title of Baron? If it was direct, from whom?

(4) Is it possible that Rahel has more connections than we know of and she is leaking information? If she is, is she using Ewen as a pawn in her in schemes?

My previous post mentions a new thread I intend to start. It proposes a theory on Rahel and thoughts on the nature of my mission.

Also, if my previous post does quenched your need to know the connection between Sir B and Sir F I will be happy to chat with Sir Tovar. I think it would not be a problem to ask him such questions. I can certainly find a way to be nonchalant about it.

[Imarë]

I will give my ideas on the last thought first. It could have been a murder of convenience. The robbery took place just up the street from the inn and the killer could have just stumbled onto it. It was just that morning I recall Sir F sitting down to a friendly beakfast with the party and the killer later saw F as a convenient target.
On the point about Sir F being in line if the Baron were to die, an interestiing point. Could Sir F have been allied with Sir B to kill the Baron to get F in position. Many of the points I made earlier would go along with this line also. The motivation of Sir B would be hazy though. Maybe there is another connection, marriage, revenge?
On Bevan's later questions:
1) If a robbery were needed to get the item away from Sir F, it could have just been contracted out. However, the violence involved would, to me at least, be a negative for the F & B connection to the robbery (new) as who would wish to be hit over the head. It could be the blackmailer is Jarop and decided to take the money and still want more from the Baron. I wonder how hard it would be to collect that much (even £20) without it being noticable.
2) If the LK is involved in the blackmail they would know when they were supposed to be paid. It also could be that the robbery party had been in the alley on multiple occasions.
3) I think whoever planned this (if Sir F was not involved) planned to take the knight out at the same time as the rest of the group. A murder in the middle of nowhere is much easier than a killing in a city. The hue and cry could have been raised if the killing were done in the city. Perhaps Sir F was supposed to go back to the Baron and get him running quickly and the murder delayed that plot.
4) I believe that Rahel is very connected. If I were a thief, I would want a nice quiet city as my hunting ground. A chaotic city with guards on everything would make my job tougher. Perhaps she is trying to help bring this order to the city. The LK is usually quiet and well hidden and might not be touched by a Royal crackdown. As for the pawn comment, I think we are all pawns and everybody is trying to get us to go the direction they want as opposed to somebody elses. I think it more likely that she was somehow trying to get information from Ewen rather than give him some. If she is involved with the LK and is an "admirer" of Lord Morgan (aka Arren I) could this be a connection between the two. We know that Arren had a dark side and was rumored to be a follower of Naveh I believe. Could this tie the various factions together? This would all hinge on who do we think Rahel is with and why.
What do Ewen and Sir Baris think about the alternate theory about Sir F and Sir B? Could there be collusion between the old friends or was Sir B just trying to stab F in the back? Please remember, the College of Heralds we went to in Coranan was expensive and only because we had Theron with us did answers come quickly. Is there still a College of Heralds in Golotha or was it removed to Coranan when the capital shifted. I remember Matt saying something about the records of the various kingdoms being compiled together but I don't know if that means the branch offices were closed down.

[Bevan]

Dave wrote

it could be the blackmailer is Jarop and decided to take the money and still want more from the Baron. I wonder how hard it would be to collect that much (even L20) without it being noticable.

What would be the motive? Even if the LK were the blackmailers this does not answer how they knew about Sir F's scheme.
As for the £20, that is a LOT of money. Remember, the very generous Sir Aurum provided the group with £5 and this fund is still going strong ... even with Ewen's fingers in the pot

[Matt]

One thought is Jarop learned from his Morgathian high priest brother. Seems unlikely unless they were hanging out, chatting about old time and new times, a few bottles of blood wine later and he lets it slip.

So that's what Morgathians drink! I'll bet they bash heads together afterwards which certainly explains the masks ...

[Matt]

The motivation of Sir B would be hazy though. Maybe there is another connection, marriage, revenge?

As Cheryl noted, brass and a baron in pocket are nice motivators. And there, Dave is possible blackmail. Almost the only one and it doesn't apply to the present Baron of Quste - see below.

2) If the LK is involved in the blackmail they would know when they were supposed to be paid.

It would, you realize be practically impossible to blackmail a peer. They answer only to their lord - for most this means the King - and are basically invulnerable to civil and temple law. The only thing you know about the Baron of Quste remotely susceptible to blackmail is his penchant for little girls - which is hardly a secret and thus poor fodder since it's tough to blackmail someone over a 'secret' everyone knows. Sir Tovar knew about it which means you can bet your boots the rest of the Ruling Class knows about it as well. Public humiliation is out too otherwise he wouldn't be dining with the little darling in public. So no blackmail on that front.

Further, Quste was pardoned not two years ago for the most heinous crime a vassal can commit - rebellion. You'd have to postulate that he did something in the last two years more heinous than that and which would cause trouble with the King.

If I were a thief, I would want a nice quiet city as my hunting ground. A chaotic city with guards on everything would make my job tougher. Perhaps she is trying to help bring this order to the city. The LK is usually quiet and well hidden and might not be touched by a Royal crackdown.

Golotha is just that city. Do not make the mistake of thinking of the Lia Kavair as the 'Thieves Guild' (note capitals). We just use that as a verbal shorthand. It is far better to think of the LK as La Cosa Nostra Harn-style. They're not just into burglaries and cutting purses. They're into gambling, prostitution, embezzlement, protection rackets, assassination, and yes, blackmail. Remember that the Agrikans patrol very little of the city - the LK keeps order in the rest of it. For their cut, of course.

Naturally, the wealthy and powerful hedge their bets by hiring guards, but Golotha is the LK paradise on Harn.

Is there still a College of Heralds in Golotha or was it removed to Coranan when the capital shifted. I remember Matt saying something about the records of the various kingdoms being compiled together but I don't know if that means the branch offices were closed down.

No, there is no college in Golotha. The records of all three former realms were concentrated in Coranan and the former colleges disbanded.

[Matt]

BTW guys - great thread. Just the purpose I was hoping the Forum would serve.

[Imarë]

What the blackmail might be is a weakness in the theory. He would, of course, do anything to keep the source of that a secret. Maybe the Baron was thinking of participating in another rebellion. Maybe he did something prior that was not known at the time of the pardon (although lying to a deryni would be difficult to say the least). The Baron had to know what Sir F was doing because when the mission seems to have failed he ran away. It must have something to do with Golotha because he ran from the city instead of to the two places of safety the city provided (Sir B and Sir Tovar). This would also indicate to me that whatever it might be, an explanation to either of these two would have caused problems for him. If the Baron did not know what Sir F was doing he would not have run. Whatever we think the secret might be the one who robbed Sir F must have known that the failure of the mission would cause the Baron to run and not go for protetection. I think it is easier to assume that Sir F was not involved in the whatever it was. He came off as a straight and true follower of his lord, even being a little overprotective (remember our original meeting with him). The LK motive seems obvious, money. I have always had it in my mind that they were involved by another party so that the other party could remain away from whatever action there was before the snatch of the Baron. I do belive the Baron is being kept alive for some reason. I don't think it is ransom, the elaborateness of the plot would work against it and killing the people who could carry a ransom demand, if fact hiding that thee Baron had been snatched at all seems counterintuitive. I will ponder it more.

[Lord Ewen]

Remember, the very generous Sir Aurum provided the group with £5 and this fund is still going strong ... even with Ewen's fingers in the pot

Sigh. I seem to recall the armor Ewen seized for the party fund netted over £3, which may be another reason the fund is going strong. File under "no good deed goeth unpunished"

Anon. Prodigious posting, folks, taking a few readings to digest. Going with Cheryl's theory, that Felkar schemed to claim the barony by snatching the old man's blackmail funds and letting him take the fall with the blackmailers, I have a thought on a scenario which would answer some of the questions Cheryl posed. You suggest Sir F planned to divert the funds to Sir B and seek asylum with the sheriff. What if Sir B wanted none of it, for reasons of his own, betrayed him and tipped off the Lia Kavair to snatch the funds? He then has a second party kill Sir F, else Sir F would prove problematic (letting him even live long enough to flee with the Baron would leave Sir B vulnerable, as Sir F would know he screwed him). As Cheryl points out, the three-mascles killer apparently followed us from Coranon, but Sir B was in Coranon, and he knew we were going to Golotha. A link between Sir B and the killer of Sir F could perhaps explain a lot.

Rahel seemed to Ewen to have given some level of credence to Jarop, Sir B, and Boraga. I tend to agree with the notion that she is sympathetic to, or directly involved in, the LK. Sir B and the three-mascles guy may be a separate connection, especially given the fact that the mugging and the murder of Sir F appeared to be separate operations, albeit happening very close together. Given what I am suggesting here, I also am less inclined to think the murder of Sir F was spontaneous and unrelated, given that it seems to have served Sir B's purpose of covering his tracks, if he is involved as Cheryl suggests.

[Bevan]

Interesting alternate theory. It brought new questions to mind. If Sir B tipped off the LK it would certainly need to be on the sly as I would think it bad for Sir B to have a person like Jarop know his involvement in such a devious plan in a city outside his jurisdiction. It would give Jarop the upper hand.

Hiring the killer is questionable in my mind. It doesn't fit in with him looking for Sir F in the inn. He sincerely seemed surprised to Bevan and there doesn't seem to be a reason to make a public display. If he wanted him bumped off it seems easier just to invite him over and deal with him your own great hall. He has been sheriff for some time. He must have people he can trust in his command and it would be done in his own jurisdiction. Also, what does he get out of saving the Baron's life? He is a distasteful man who rebelled against the King, whom Sir B gladly supports and serves well. He also seemed much friendlier with Sir F from what we saw the first night at the Bridgetower. He clapped Sir F on the shoulder while only giving the Baron a polite nod.

I'm not sure we have enough evidence that he is involved with the mascle guy. One, Sir B was called to Coranan by Sir Auram. Two, We don't know how long he was in Coranan and if he had connections with the red-haired guy. Three, we don't what knowledge he had of Bevan prior to meeting in the Red Domes. What is his motive?

Van wrote:

Given what I am suggesting here, I also am less inclined to think the murder of Sir F was spontaneous and unrelated, given that it seems to have served Sir B's purpose of covering his tracks, if he is involved as Cheryl suggests

I don't think the murder of Sir F has actually served him well at all. In my theory he would be happy to have a Baron in his pocket along with his £20. The only connection I see Mr. 3-mascle's having with the people in Golotha is to seek opportunity to murder a person who would get our attention.

Now that brings a totally separate thought to mind. What are the odds we would see the carvings on Sir F? He was left in an alley, stripped naked, in a city that the crime rate is so high that there are more bodies in the water than on land. In fact if it weren't for Pix and Trelk's impeccable timing he would never have been brought back to the inn. Curious what this says out our killer's expectations that we would see his handiwork ... But I digress.

[Lord Ewen]

I was supposing pre-existing relations between Sir B and these parties (LK, etc.) to make my scenario fit, but I'll certainly admit it is all rank speculation without, as you say, evidence. It seems to me, though, that something needs to tie these events together, and Sir B spans the geography, the time frame, and relationships to certain key people. You asked how the LK knew about Sir F's scheme, and suggested that Sir F was uniting with Sir B in his scheme, so my suggestion seemed to me the most parsimonious (doesn't introduce a third party having to learn about the scheme). Having said as much, Golotha is full of third parties, and that might be just what happened.

How would Sir B have saved the Baron's life by having Sir F robbed, or killed? Per the scenario you suggested, Sir F was dooming the baron by taking the money, but if Sir B diverted this to the LK it certainly didn't help the Baron a jot, as we have seen. Your point about Sir B's friendliness to Sir F is well-taken, but Dave has raised some questions about his somewhat lukewarm response to the murder which, perhaps, contributed to my thinking. If you think Sir B doesn't make sense as the culprit here, then I suppose we are back to your original questions: How did the LK learn of the money, and know when to grab it? I doubt Sir F told them. Or perhaps we haven't quite nailed the story of what was actually happening on the night of the 11th yet.

[Bevan]

I think I need to clarify my posts.

My first post was merely my own theory.

I did try to work out a theory that would connect people, offer reasonable motives, while still keeping in mind the timeline, personalities, and available facts. There are still unanswered questions that i would like to pursue in the next session. Top of the list being how did the LK know about the ££. My theory does not go with the LK blackmail scenario, but that certainly does not mean mine is right. I will say I think it is fairly solid. I'm open to hearing and debating any discrepancies in my theory.

My third post was in response to your post, Van. I was not trying to combine the two but to speculate on your theories separate from my own.

[Bevan]

Oh and I suppose I was negligent in not giving kudos to Ewen for grabbing the armor and making a pretty penny for the group.

[Imarë]

Ewen, if Imare has the reputation of a loose tart, you can certainly live with the spendthrift moniker.
On to the other stuff. My thoughts on Sir F being in with Sir B is that this makes less sense to me. If Sir F were going to betray the Baron to get his position, why would he not just hand whatever it was in the bag over to his associates in the matter? Why not just ruff himself up some and go back saying he had been robbed. This to me would be an indication that he was not privy to at least the robbery portion. I reread the notes on the Rebellion and the Baron did not make the change of his own free will. He was captured during the battle along with another Baron. After the battle, where the late Earl of Tormau met his fate he gave came back. This smacks of realpolitic to me. He had no other choice in the matter (except a probably painful death) and for the King it meant that he would have fewer places to have to pacify to bring the situation to a close. With all the death involved in the actions, the Legions had taken a beating and another seige might have revealed that they were dreadfully understrength at this point. I don't think anybody knows for sure if Sir B is happy in his post. Maybe he has asperations for higher office. He did his job in the rebellion, but the record does not indicate he was a leading light. When all the rewards were passed out, he was not on the list for any tidbits of his own (promotion, land). Even if he were in Coranan and knew about the murder of an obscure harper, how would he ever associate it with the party? If the robbery and murder were done by Sir B, why did the robbers not do the job on Sir F, why did they leave with just the bag and not go all the way themselves (I don't think it would be beyond Mogger to do that). What all this means to me is that Sir F was not involved with the plan against the Baron. He could have more easily poisoned him, or pushed him off a turret somewhere and not involved the people in Golotha at all. He could have been running his own scam at the same time, the death of the prior heir could have been arranged by him. I am sure that if Sir B were going to go after the Baron and Sir F he would not act that way. A bit of gladhandling to keep them from detecting something would be appropriate. As for the connections between the LK and Sir B, well he has been stationed next to the city for years. He could have been corrupted over time. He could have been involved in robbery or milking his position for money and be snared into the LK's web. He could have found out who the leader was (we found out with little trouble) and brought this scheme to his attention. Maybe Sir B is totally innocent of everything and is a red herring. Maybe the money was to help finance a new rebellion. With the King and many of his troops off fighting in Orbaal the old fire was being rekindled. This, if discovered, would have put the Barons head in danger and would mean that he would be loth to go to the Royal authorities for protection. Maybe the money was going to our shadow Lenesque member. Whoever was behind the robbery of Sir F was, to me, clearly not a supporter of the Baron. I do think that whoever it was was trying to get the Baron out of the city at a specified time so he could be ambushed. Someone has a purpose for our good Baron, but I don't see a long and happy future for him.
As for Bevans point about giving Jarop the upper hand over Sir B if he were involved, that is not what I see. If two men were questioned about actions, who would be believed, a knight and a sheriff or a chandler cum Lia Kavir leader? As Matt put it "It would, you realize be practically impossible to blackmail a peer. They answer only to their lord - for most this means the King - and are basically invulnerable to civil and temple law." I think the important thing for the group as a whole is to have a list of suspects and then try to see if we can get any evidence that they were involved. At this point there is no solid evidence against Sir B, but I think we would be fools not to suspect the man. Once we are looking for evidence we may be able to find it. I do not know how succession to a title occurs. Would the Baron have to name his heir or would it flow according to established custom? I believe that I remember that Sir F was the last cousin who could inherit but I don't think the source (Trilk I believe) knew who would be next. If there were no close family members left would the title go vacant or would more distant relations be put into the position? Could the good Baron be related distantly to the Lenesque clan and could the man we are searching for be looking for an open position to act from (we don't even know if his name is Lenesque, he could be a distaff relative who is related to the Baron). Many interesting possibilities exist, almost too many. Testing assumptions seems the only way to feel our way toward the conclusion. In any event, I think the proper course of action is to gather as much information as possible and take it to Sir Auram. First, from what Matt says, the King is the only one who could do anything if the culpret is Sir B or any other noble. Second, whoever they are, they seem connected with the power structure in the city and are beyond our power to do anything besides gather information.

[Matt]

With all the death involved in the actions, the Legions had taken a beating and another siege might have revealed that they were dreadfully understrength at this point.

I think this is a speculation too far. Arren II kicked ass in the rebellion and there is no indication that his armies weren't capable of doing so again.

I don't think anybody knows for sure if Sir B is happy in his post. Maybe he has asperations for higher office. He did his job in the rebellion, but the record does not indicate he was a leading light. When all the rewards were passed out, he was not on the list for any tidbits of his own (promotion, land).

This is a medieval society - not an upwardly mobile one. Remember that Sir Blors was installed as Sheriff by Arren I in 720 - this means he was among the most trusted members of his band and has been kept in that position by Arren II. You have no indication that Blors is Deryni which means that if he's dissatisfied he'd have to have fooled not only Arren of Melderyn but Arren II as well.

Maybe the money was to help finance a new rebellion. With the King and many of his troops off fighting in Orbaal the old fire was being rekindled. This, if discovered, would have put the Barons head in danger and would mean that he would be loth to go to the Royal authorities for protection. Maybe the money was going to our shadow Lenesque member.

By a Baron? Seriously - he'd be crushed within days without the King even knowing about it. It wouldn't even take a full legion. The last rebellion was by an Earl and there are no earls in sight right now. One Baron has zero chance of a successful rebellion - and even if he did, what on earth is he doing in Golotha diddling the niece at a time like this?

I do not know how succession to a title occurs. Would the Baron have to name his heir or would it flow according to established custom? I believe that I remember that Sir F was the last cousin who could inherit but I don't think the source (Trilk I believe) knew who would be next. If there were no close family members left would the title go vacant or would more distant relations be put into the position? Could the good Baron be related distantly to the Lenesque clan and could the man we are searching for be looking for an open position to act from (we don't even know if his name is Lenesque, he could be a distaff relative who is related to the Baron).

Primogeniture. However, the King can change that. You may rest assured he would not allow a Lenesque to succeed to any title. Nor may the Baron name an heir. If he dies without one, the title reverts to the Crown and the King may, at his pleasure, name a new Baron of Quste. And you do indeed know the Baron's name - it is Subla Uldseth.